Cracking Down On Illegal Lineups in 2017


#21

I would echo this: I believe that the only time an illegal roster is an issue (in this context) is at the start of the offseason. If you enter the offseason in a legal state under 40+60DL and 400+inflation+Loans, then you can go illegal at any point before the cut deadline. When I think about the legality of rosters, I personally don’t take issue with the 4-1 offseason trade that would make someone go illegal, it’s the stocking up on in the hours before entering the offseason that’s the issue (at least to me). Granted, I could be wrong.


#22

A good example of what @jjdouglas was trying to prevent:

https://ottoneu.fangraphs.com/159/team?team=1175


#23

That’s pretty egregious. Gonna put a pin in this for now, but I’m convinced that this should be addressed in some way.


#24

Just a clarification on the 60-day DL thing. Once the World Series is over the 60-day DL goes away. This prevents teams from just stashing a ton of guys on the 60-day DL before the Rule 5 etc, so everyone on the 60-day in Ottoneu should also begin counting against your roster once the World Series is over.


#25

Agreed, @DSpracale, but there are no off-season roster limits so there is effectively no impact from that. what we are trying to enforce is getting teams legal as of the end of all in-season auctions, trades and waiver claims. Once the off-season starts, you can make trades and be as illegal as you want (including guys no longer on the 60-day) until Jan 31


#26

So you’d effectively have to have 2 deadlines for roster conformity? I don’t like that at all. It will curb offseason trading completely. The roster that was linked earlier was an egregious violation and isn’t the norm that needs to be corrected.


#27

i am in four leagues and in two there are currently teams that have added players in the last week who are over the roster limit in terms of players, dollars or both. I don’t see how those teams being asked to make 2-3 cuts is going to curb off-season trading.

and it’s not two deadlines - there is one set of rules in place from feb 1 through oct 14 and another from oct 15 to jan 31. the roster rules I want enforced in october are not a new deadline but just a continuation of the same rules that have been in place all season.


#28

Right. You shoudn’t have to cut bloated (loaned) rosters on 10/15. That’s what the official 1/31 deadline is for. But you should not be able to roster an infinite number of players the day after the regular season ends just because the in-season roster rules disappear. They should just remain ( the same rules that applies yesterday (last day of the season).


#29

This.

And this is why i think I would rather see something that says you cannot do arb/trades/whatever in the off-season until you are legal by the pre-end-of-the-world series definition.

Actually, if the 60-day designation really goes away the day after the WS, then the right rule might be that the day after the WS, 60 day DL, loans, cap penalties all get wiped away and roster rules cease to be enforced until 1/31.

it might make sense to do something like this:

  • You must be legal by in-season rules through the end of the World Series. Access to arb will be blocked until you get legal.
  • if you are legal the day the WS ends, you are free to do as you wish until 1/31
  • if you are not legal the day the WS ends, you remain blocked until you get legal, but at that point “legal” now means 40/400 cause all the other stuff has been wiped away and cannot be tracked so you are basically screwed

The one issue I am seeing here is that I think salary increases typically happen before the start of arb, right @nivshah? And that would mess all this up.


#30

I really like this solution, was going to suggest something similar.


#31

Yep, inflation happens before arbitration, because that makes the arbitration choices clearer. Inflation and loan expiration really throw a wrench in all of this.


#32

Couldn’t both of those be pushed to 10/14? Then teams have a bit less than two weeks to give legal under the in season rules.


#33

Basically extend the ottoneu regular season another 10 days or so, but still freeze 48 hr auctions after the end of the MLB regular season


#34

But I want to wrap up the season nowwwwwwwww

I think something along that is a good choice. A period from end of the regular season to 10/14 where you can’t add players but have to get legal.

Though, if someone is willing to add 40 players on the last day of the season, why wouldn’t they just stay illegal? And furthermore, isn’t someone willing to add 40 players on the last day of the season, who in that league would ever want to work with that owner? And why would the commissioner be shy about saying “hey, maybe don’t”?

Also @eamuscatuli you can edit your posts instead of posting here like it is a chat room. :wink:


#35

I’m an independent man, so I will do whatever I want!


#36

If they stay illegal until 10/15 then they are locked until 1/31. give the commish the ability to override this (“Crap, I was $1 over and didn’t realize, help!”) and then that is that.

Or rather than locked out until 1/31, you can’t participate until you are legal, legal is defined as legal on 10/14 (whcih locks you legal until 1/31) or 40/400 (so if you act like a jerk until 10/30 you CAN get legal for off-season trading but it will be hard)


#37

BTW, another less egregious but maybe more problematic example of this:

https://ottoneu.fangraphs.com/139/team?team=1087

That’s in the experts league. He just added a $28 JUpton. Last week or so he has added that Upton, $4 Yordano, $5 Addison Reed, $6 Jharel Cotton. That’ s 4 players and $43 in cap, putting him four over the roster limit and $41 over the cap. He actually can’t get back to legal at this point without decimating his team. I am not sure what to do about that in that league - I might just ask him to cut Upton and give him a pass for this year beyond that - but that’s not good.


#38

Ah ok that all makes sense. I am flip flopping and I am now for it.


#39

To play devils advocate, what is the real harm of that team that has 90 players right now? If these are end of season auction additions they are either useless fringe prospects that no one wanted all season or they are fringe guys who aren’t worth the $1(plus end of season increase). Other owners should be able block these late additions with a small bid or they can just not make trades in December for $7 A ball 18 year olds.

MLB teams audition players all the time and don’t have to have real 40 man rosters until the season starts. I don’t see why this has to be different.

The problem I see is when teams are ok with locked out rosters in early September because they’ve given up. The goal should be having teams active in the game through the season.


#40

> MLB teams audition players all the time and don’t have to have real 40 man rosters until the season starts. I don’t see why this has to be different.

Exactly…I’d rather have the system stop scoring points when owners go illegal for more than 72 hours during the season.

Regarding adds made before season’s end and illegal rosters during the offseason. - Considering that if you add 10 guys inflation will also hit you with an extra $10 or $20 depending if they are prospects or MLB players…I don’t understand the need of cracking down. If that owner feels like paying extra to hold those players for four months in the offseason, why bother? There’s no edge said owner is gaining out of adding players other than wanting to own them before anyone else and paying extra when inflation hits. Cuts will have to be made come 1/31, if anything, that owner is adding more work for himself. I clearly don’t see this as a winning strategy in terms of finances, but I can be wrong.